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Poster: Hal R Date: Dec 22, 2010 9:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

Right you are, this is a way to divert attention from this.
Direct costs of Iraq war from Wikipedia.

As of February 2010, around $704 billion has been spent based on estimates of current expenditure rates[1], which range from the Congressional Research Service (CRS) estimate of $2 billion per week to $12 billion a month, an estimate by economist Joseph Stiglitz.[2]



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Poster: ringolevio Date: Dec 22, 2010 9:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

Exactly. You cannot tell me about x billion PER WEEK in Iraq and then expect me to get upset about $600,00 to some little university archive. Archiving historical records and artifacts is good work, people.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Dec 22, 2010 10:10am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

Ring, it is good work and I support it BUT do you realize that students in the UC system organized protests this past year, including at UCSC, due to drastic tuition hikes? Now, that's admittedly a California statewide problem and doesn't address fed funds, but if I'm a 21 year old that is having to drop school because of 30% plus tuition hikes, I don't think I'd really enjoy seeing federal money going to archive the artwork on mail order envelopes for an extinct band by card carrying AARP members at my library. That said, I'm glad the work is being done, but I do think people have valid concerns about how it is funded. This seems like an ideal private enterprise partnership with the university.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Dec 22, 2010 10:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

It *is* a partnership with private enterprise, it appears.
I don't believe this involves a tradeoff with financial aid or has any connection to tuition at California state universities.
Are you opposed then to all federal spending on the arts and culture? You wish none of the projects on that page got funded? As I think Hal pointed out, that is not a very progressive idea, as it simply means the rich have culture and music and art and everyone else does not. And if this did happen, a great many jobs would be lost.

edit - also, there has been a lot of confusion in this thread about exactly who is benefitting. Some people actually seemed to think this was money somehow going to Bob and Phil! The archive will be public and free, if I understand correctly. Those arguing against this seem to be saying libraries should not be public and free. Not really progress for civilization ...

This post was modified by ringolevio on 2010-12-22 18:26:12

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Poster: William Tell Date: Dec 22, 2010 10:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey BD & RLO!

Since you guys stayed close to the one pet peeve I have, and I am chiming in late, just wanted to say I agree that this is trivia at one level, and of course it's a continuum of where we want to spend our money, BUT what all college kids should be protesting, besides military spending, is the unreal contributions, generally hidden (truly!!!) going to fund sports, primarily football, and the fact that this generally is a huge investment with only intangible results (ie, NO $!!! despite suggestions of local economies gurus that try to argue it does benefit them) that are even less defensible than esoteric notions of how the arts benefit humankind in general, and students in particular.

Seriously--it's a HUGE $ issue, and just like public funding of professional football stadiums and such we discussed sometime back, the data are clearly "in"...students should NOT be forced (they currently are at the majority of schools) to fund the football teams that only provide real results ($) if they are in the top 5% or so of the teams across the country.

Fig'd you'd be up on this, BD, and perhaps one inclined to defend it on the intangibles, but I just don't buy it...regardless, it should be transparent, and it's not. My kids, at uni's in different states, all paid "generic" athletic fees of which substantial portions (literally $100s each semester) were ear marked for the football teams alone.

It makes me puke. And that's not just cause my own team sucks.

Bottom line: as Mando notes, it really is astounding how when you start looking at it, there are absurd examples of every kind, from every part of any continuum you want to examine, of how we spend our money that if you took a vote today on each and everyone, you'd end up thinking "how the F@#K did we ever get to the place in which we spend this much on this item/issue/whatever?!?"

Thus, whenever we single out one tree in the forest, it does look odd, but when you put it back in the forest, and compare it to the other forests, you get so upset that you have to just put it all back down and say "I'll deal with this later cause I gotta go Xmas shopping!"

Or at least I do. Works for me, but I am a cynical old fart that likes to point out when folks have their facts wrong without necessarily giving them an indication of how they should act to extricate themselves from this screwed up situation except by doing the impossible, such as burning down the entire forest in my whacky little metaphor.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Dec 22, 2010 11:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey BD & RLO!

DITTO! I like the Ivy League approach to sports, and I say this as someone who has been to a lot of Final Fours (but not so many college football bowls).

And my football team truly sucks, but we will be ACC CHAMPS IN 2011! (of course, we are the school that got sued and settled with a female placekicker - talk about Title IX). Mando, stop laughing! At least our players take care of their dogs.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Dec 22, 2010 11:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey BD & RLO!

> even less defensible than esoteric notions of how the arts benefit humankind in general

I just find it very funny (funny-strange as well as funny-ha ha) that in a gathering of Deadheads, there would be a sense that "how the arts benefit humankind" is somehow esoteric?! Most people here don't act like that's a strange or esoteric notion to us; most of us act like we could barely get through the day without them, and spend hours every single day explaining what the arts mean to us, how they've defined our lives. I mean, this is going to sound goofy - no then again maybe here it isn't going to sound goofy - but I have been known to have JGB in both ears and realize that I have tears on my face as a result. It is not esoteric to me how the arts benefit humankind!

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Poster: William Tell Date: Dec 22, 2010 12:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey BD & RLO!

[Needed two for emphasis?]

Right with ya; assume you knew I was phrasing it as some might (and regardless of how you and I agree, there are many--I hope I shouldn't say "most"?--that would view it as "esoteric" relative to so many other day to day issues, "food on the table", blah, blah, blah).

Course, I put it right behind "science education"!

;)

This post was modified by William Tell on 2010-12-22 20:21:04

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Poster: William Tell Date: Dec 22, 2010 12:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey BD & RLO!

Right with ya; assume you knew I was phrasing it as some might (and regardless of how you and I agree, there are many--I hope I shouldn't say "most"?--that would view it as "esoteric" relative to so many other day to day issues, "food on the table", blah, blah, blah).

Course, I put it right behind "science education"!

;)

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Dec 22, 2010 12:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey BD & RLO!

Now that's esoteric for ya :)
*kidding* (sort of ...)

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Poster: William Tell Date: Dec 22, 2010 12:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey BD & RLO!

Hmmm, now that I re-read it, it sounds like leaving it to the "educators" in the "education colleges" which is the biggest catastrophe of the last century...don't get me started. Good joke by old bio prof: "roll up your window as you drive past the education college, or they may throw a degree in!"

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Dec 22, 2010 12:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey BD & RLO!

That's pretty funny ...

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Poster: high flow Date: Dec 22, 2010 12:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey BD & RLO!

Interesting that the Grateful Dead Archive at UCSC is now a part of the "food on the table" conversation. "Kids we'd have *REAL* Frosted Flakes if it weren't for this g*ddamn Grateful Dead Archive Project. I am very sorry. But for now we can only afford Freaky Flakes."

As a tax-payer, I should be consulted about such expenditures.

"Well you voted, didn't you?!?!", you might reply.

Yes, but I am a member of California's Common Sense Party(ha ha...) who's members have recently been added to the list of Endangered Species.

I say keep the archive and make real changes.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Dec 22, 2010 1:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey BD & RLO!

We can vote?

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Dec 22, 2010 1:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey BD & RLO!

More than once if you know how...

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Poster: snori Date: Dec 22, 2010 2:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey BD & RLO!

Early and often ?

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Dec 22, 2010 2:14pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey BD & RLO!

Just google "diebold" and "voting" and see what pops up.

Yes, I'm still bitter about stolen elections and no, I don't think I should "get over it". (And yes, I know JFK stole the election from Nixon).

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Poster: William Tell Date: Dec 22, 2010 2:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey BD & RLO!

Anybody with that much sweat on his upperlip deserved to lose.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Dec 22, 2010 2:55pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey BD & RLO!

Hey, any guy that learned legal ethics at the same place as Ken Starr and I can't be all bad, right?

I got in "trouble" in law school b/c I flipped off his portrait every time I walked by it and once spit on the ground and a Dean really lit into me and I lit back into him saying it was a disgrace to my degree to show any respect for Tricky Dick and that the only constitutional law he had learned was in order to break it. Of course, since I was appreciably older than most of the other students (and even a prof or two), they all thought I was nuts and fighting a lost war. (which is true) But I did write and get a short reply from Hunter S. before he died (although only via email so no "autograph), so that's something. (FYI, Raoul Duke name by Trudeau is based on Hunter S. speech at Duke) Best thing the uni ever did was refuse to house the Nixon library - although our presence in China is HUGE due to him.

Have we strayed far enough away from the original intent of this thread?

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Poster: William Tell Date: Dec 22, 2010 3:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey BD & RLO!

I think that's a wrap!

Good story.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Dec 22, 2010 10:34am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

Please reread my post - I specifically said it's not tied to the tuition. It's the APPEARANCE that gets people upset. I don't think it's hard to understand why people are upset and I fully think that the GOP is cynically using this as an example of wasteful funding to stir up political support. I'm sure Coburn already has his own fundraising letter addressing it sent out.

No, I'm not opposed to all federal funding of arts and culture, but if it gets funded by taxpayers, then taxpayers have a right to argue for what should and should not get funded. Recall Piss Christ? Well that just happened again. http://www.warholfoundation.org/foundation/35_detail.html?page=0
Eric Cantor has already informed the Smithsonian this will be an issue when it comes time for granting budget requests.

I understand the GOP wants to fully pull pulbic funding of the NEA, NPR, and a myriad other institutions. As a part owner of an art gallery and legal counsel to a film that chronicles underground art, I do pay attention to this stuff.
http://www.thealternativecafe.com/index.php
http://www.newbrowfilm.com/

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Dec 22, 2010 6:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

If those agencies are completely defunded what effect would that have on the gallery and the arts in general ?

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Dec 22, 2010 11:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

Right but the point is just that that was manipulated. If he sent out the same letter or sound bite saying OH MY GOD Look at this wasteful spending at the Hartford Public Library or the Indiana University library or the Honolulu zoo, would it have the same effect?

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Poster: advokat Date: Dec 22, 2010 5:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

Not at all - I fully understand that the GD makes an easy target, especially when the archive is being housed at UCSC, the school Reagan had planned so there would be no central place to gather after the Berkeley free speech debacles he and his AG Ed Meese cracked down on.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Dec 22, 2010 6:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

Oh, yeah ...

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Dec 22, 2010 10:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

This is moot Ring. Soon 20%, (20%!!) of our spending will go to service the debt. That grant to the archive was paid with borrowed money as where the others. That's just insane.
I would like to drink Grand Marnier Cent Cinquantenaire again, but I can't afford it and I'm not taking a bank loan out to buy a few cases.
Life's lottery is unfair. I wish it wasn't so.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Dec 22, 2010 11:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

But then shouldn't we say the war is being funded by borrowed money and whoops, we can't afford that, so we'd better bring all the troops home?

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Poster: Diamondhead Date: Dec 22, 2010 10:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

You realize this all has been a plot? Obama and Rhino struck a deal. The Dead play concerts for Obama and bring in the hippie vote and the archive gets the bucks. Simple. End of story.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Dec 22, 2010 11:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

I wish it were true. Not so much the particular people (necessarily), but the ease with which we could fix it.
I had no idea the hippie vote kicked so much ass. I thought Cook or King's County knew how to play the game. We must be $2 whores (or less) for only $650K . For our services I would expect a modern Getty Museum museum (slightly smaller of course), a 6K concert hall , a small (K-12) school And college of music.
And I get to spend some alone time with a few Rhino execs, with immunity.

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Poster: Diamondhead Date: Dec 23, 2010 11:16am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

LOL. And don't forget the Avatar Dead playing in that 6K hall.